Burning Crusade Project

I am dying to play/run a Burning Wheel game of some kind. I went out and picked up both the BW: Gold book as well as Mouse Guard, but the idea of adding a new game to my list of commitments is not too awesome. I am, however, already running a kind of hybrid Deathwatch/Dark Heresy game.

Maybe the answer is to do a little homework and convert the Warhammer RPGs to BW. Maybe it’s not. Maybe the conversion project will be ten times as much work as just running another game. But whatever. It will be fun, and I just might learn something.

From what I can tell here are a list things I will need to do. I’m starting with Deathwatch but I’ll keep my eye on the Dark Heresy stuff.

• Do some basic mapping of characteristics and skills. Strength to Power, Toughness to Forte, etc…
• Convert space marine origins and chapters into Lifepaths.
• Create BW versions of the DW traits.
• Make custom BW Tools for the DW Weapons and Equipment.
• Figure out what to do with Corruption and Insanity. Maybe something with Artha. I don’t know.
• Figure out what to do with Requisition and Renown. The acquisition rules from Rogue Trader might work well for BW tests but then again it might prove too unreliable. We’ll see.

I’m not the first person to try something like this. I found this Rogue Trader Conversion Project. She’s undertaking the same kind of thing. I’ll be tracking that project and comparing notes.

More to come once I’ve done some real work.

Essence Pattern in C#

I regularly use Dependency Injection in my dev projects. I use it because it makes it easier to isolate components when unit testing and I use it because it's neat. In the course of setting up DI I go back and forth on which injection approach to use. Not, what DI framework to use. That's a different question. For the record, I use Ninject. Your preference may be different. Anyway, the issue for me is deciding whether to use "constructor" or "property" based injection.

Property injection uses convention, or if you're using C# or similar language Attributes, which get set by your IoC container (Kernel if you're using Ninject). The Pros: You get to preserve your default constructor and it's easy to add properties to a class without breaking existing references to your constructor. The Cons: it's not as immediately clear what is required by your class. Also, attributes are like salt. It should be used sparingly. Over attribution of an class starts to obscure its actual purpose, kind of like salt.

With constructor based injection, all your dependencies are listed as constructor parameters. The Pros: it's easy to determine just from looking at the constructor what is required and it's impossible to instantiate your class without them. The Cons: you don't get a default constructor which is kind of nice if you're using other frameworks that require them. Also, if you have a lot of dependencies, your parameter list if going to get pretty long.

So, that got me to thinking, "how many parameters is too many?" There isn't a right answer necessarily, as with many things in programming. But, I've decided I have an opinion. Three. Three is the number I find acceptable. Any more than three and I start to wonder if I'm doing something wrong. Any more than three and it looks ugly to me. Some people say humans are capable of keeping up to seven (7) things in their head at once. But, I'd rather save the other four (4) for local variables inside my method. Anyway I think three is good. With three your intent should still remain clear and the majority of methods should make do with one or two. In fact, two is better. Once is best. But three. Sure. I can deal with three.

I searched around for other opinions. Naturally, as with all things in programming, there are many opinions. Here is a useful discussion with a minimal amount of vitriol.

How many constructor arguments is too many?

In reading this discussion I was reacquainted with an old design pattern than I'd read about years ago but never really considered implementing in any of my projects. This time I was intrigued enough to give it a go. Between my burning question about parameters and their appropriate quantities and the need to see what kind of spin I could put on this pattern using modern C# (4.0 as of this writing), I wrote some code of my own. I implemented an Essence pattern using Builder and just a touch of Fluent Interface. I'm not normally a huge fan of method chaining, but in cases where I'm expression state or configuration in code I think it can work. Anyway here it is.

EssencePattern.zip

Flurry of Crunch

The latest class to be resurrected by 4th edition is the monk. A classic staple of AD&D, the monk has has won awards for most genre bending and made runner up for most useless party member (right behind the bard) in previous editions. 4E has recast these guys in with the other psionic types in a melee striker role.

As melee striker they appear to be fun to play. They get loads of mobility, interesting mult-target attack powers, and yes they still have really good defenses wearing nothing but a bath robe and some fuzzy slippers.

Rather than go into detail about the monk in general I want to look at a particularly interesting build floating around the interwebs, the twin strike monk.

Here is a link to the build on iplay4e. But here are the more important aspects of the build.

• Level 12 Stonefist Monk
• Race: Revenant (Half-Elf)
• Abilities: Dex(21) / Str(19)
• Feats: Half-Elf Soul, Crashing Tempest Style, Unarmored Agility, Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Defense, Weapon Expertise (Unarmed), Starblade Flurry, Versatile Master
• Gear: Robe of Eyes Githweave Armor (+3) Amulet of Protection (+3) Blurred Strike Ki Focus (+2), Rhythm Blade Dagger (+1), Iron Armbands of Power (Heroic), Belt of The Brawler
• Powers (partial list): Twin Strike, Stone Fist Flurry of Blows

Before we start getting really crunchy over attacks and damage output, let's take a quick look at this character's AC defense. Hover over the numbers to see details.

AC = 10 + 6 + 5 + 2 + 2 + 3 + 2 = 30

The genius of this AC stack is the shield bonus granted from Two-Weapon Defense. Because the shield bonus is not granted from actually carrying a shield but instead from an off-hand weapon the feat bonus from Unarmored Agility still applies. Combined with the additional +1 shield bonus granted from the Rhythm dagger it's even better!

You might ask, where is this monk's second melee weapon? It turns out there are three weapons listed in the compendium in the unarmed group. Unarmed Attack, Monk Unarmed Strike, and Spikes Gauntlet. Personally I think this is a poor way to categorize these three things, but then again I also think letting monks qualify for Two-Weapon feats by doing nothing other than use their cool class ability and spend feats is also a poor move. But oh well.

On to the real meat of this build. TWIN STRIKE!

Ranger Attack 1Twin Strike

If the first attack doesn't kill it, the second one might.

At-Will      Martial, Weapon
Standard Action      Melee or Ranged weapon

Requirement: You must be wielding two melee weapons or a ranged weapon.

Targets: One or two creatures

Attack: Strength vs. AC (melee; main weapon and off-hand weapon) or Dexterity vs. AC (ranged), two attacks

Hit: 1[W] damage per attack.
Increase damage to 2[W] at 21st level.

First published in Player's Handbook.

The whole point of this build is applying your Flurry of Blows damage 6 times. Did I say 6? Yes I did. Your ordinary striker, say rogue for example, is getting 3 dice of extra striker damage, once per round. Normally those dice are d6s, but with an extra feat they can usually bump those to d8s. So, 3d8 (13.5 avg) damage per round for a level 11 rogue.

On the other hand, this Stone Fist Monk at level 12, is adding his extra striker damage 6 times and each time the damage is either 11 or 15, depending on if the monk can get find enemies not targeted in the original attack. That's 90 potential extra points of striker damage! Even at epic level our rogue is just looking at 5d8 on his Sneak Attack. That's 22 average per round but to be fair there is a remote chance it could do as much as 40. There are feats to increase potential damage output of the rogue's Sneak Attack damage but nothing that gets it even close to 90.

Take a look at Starblade Flurry, you'll be seeing this in effect real soon.

Starblade Flurry

Paragon Tier
Prerequisite: 11th level, monk, Flurry of Blows class feature
Benefit: When you use your Flurry of Blows power, you can add a single target within 5 squares of you by throwing a dagger or a shuriken that you have in hand. Doing so doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks.

First published in Player's Handbook 3.

That was a lot of numbers flying around. Let's try to break it down. Again hover over the numbers to see details.

Twin Strike Attack 1: Blurred Strike Ki Focused Monk Unarmed Strike, Main-Hand, Melee Touch

+ 6 + 4 + 2 + 3 + 1 = +16 vs AC

Hit: 1d8 + 0 + 2 + 1 + 2 + 2 = 1d8 + 7 (avg 11.5)

Plus, triggers Stonefist Flurry of Blows:
Targets: One or two within Melee Touch, one additional target within 5 (Starblade Flurry)
3 + 4 + 2 + 2 (+ 4) = 11 (15)

All said and done, assuming you can find targets for all of your uses of flurry 11.5 + 3 x 15 = 56.5. Hell if that's all you did in the round it would be epic. But wait there's more...

Before looking at attack number two, check out the item Blurred Strike Ki Focus.

Blurred Strike Ki Focus

You can master the secret of speed by catching this small mechanical fly in your hands.

Level: 10
Price: 5,000 gp
Implement (Ki Focus)
Enhancement: +2 attack rolls and damage rolls
Critical: +2d8 damage
Property: You can use your Flurry of Blows power an additional time during your turn, but the two uses of that power must be triggered by two different attacks that you make with this ki focus.

Power (At-Will): Free Action. Trigger: You move at least half your speed during this turn. Effect: You gain a +2 bonus to all defenses until the end of your next turn.

First published in Player's Handbook 3.

Oops, take another look at the property. Looks like you need to make two attack using this Ki Focus. No problem, just accept you're going to lose a point of AC and Reflex when using this additional Flurry. It's a good trade. Anyway check out the At-Will Free Action. Talk about OP.

Twin Strike Attack 2: Blurred Strike Ki Focused Dagger, Off-Hand, Melee

+ 6 + 4 + 2 + 3 = +15 vs AC

Hit: 1d4 + 0 + 2 + 0 + 2 = 1d4 + 4 (avg 6.5)

Plus, triggers Stonefist Flurry of Blows:
Second use courtesy of Blurred Strike Ki Focus Property.
Targets: One or two within Melee Touch, one additional target within 5 (Starblade Flurry)
3 + 4 + 2 + 2 (+ 4) = 11 (15)

Total for second attack: 5.5 + 3 x 15 = 51.5.

With both attacks hitting that's 108 damage!

There is a decent chance one of your attacks will miss. There is also a decent chance you will not be able to apply Flurry to the maximum targets. Finally there is a pretty good chance one of your Flurry targets will have to be the target of your triggering attack, lowering your overall damage by 4 or 8 points. It's pretty situational and it's a big range depending on all the factors.

What exactly is the worst case damage scenario? Easy, main-hand attack misses, off-hand attack hits and you have only one target, the target you hit with your second attack. Average damage in this case = 17.5. Seems pretty low huh? Not really. It's comparable with a rogue who is unable to get combat advantage. It just appears low after after staring at all the big, fabulous prizes.

Another typical scenario I foresee is one target adjacent and one target at range within 5. If you hit with your main-hand, and miss with your off-hand, damage comes out to 11.5 + 11 + 15 = 37.5. And that's missing with your off-hand. Damn good for a paragon level at-will striker attack. Damn good indeed! If hit with the off-hand it's another 32.5 damage for a total of 70. For what I see as the common scenario, you can expect alternating rounds of 37 and 70 damage, sustainable for the entire encounter!

The only downside is that this attack sequence doesn't focus fire at all. It sprays damage around a bunch of enemies, which means more enemies on the board longer, meaning more attacks incoming to your party. On the other hand multi-target damage output is great in some encounters.

Verdict: The cheese is strong in this build.

Suggested Fixes:

1. Ban Blurred Strike Ki Focus
2. Change Unarmed Attack to a standard action melee attack instead of a weapon type
3. Change Monk Unarmed Strike to a class feature that just increases damage done with the Unarmed Attack option
4. Change the Monk Unarmored Defense bonus to a feat bonus instead of untyped.

Duelist's Flurry of Crunches

This post is brought to by the rogue power Duelist's Flurry. To be fair it is just as much brought to you by the lack of clarity in 4E around the anatomy of a damage roll and the tornado of bonuses tied to this rather vague entity.

Rogue Attack 1Duelist's Flurry

You move your blade quickly, stinging your foe with a series of cuts and slashes. Each slice does little damage, but when combined, they form a deadly threat.

At-Will       Martial, Weapon
Standard Action      Melee weapon

Requirement: You must be wielding a light blade.

Target: One creature

Attack: Dexterity vs. AC

Hit: Dexterity modifier damage, slide the target 1 square, and you shift 1 square. You may use your sneak attack damage even if you do not have combat advantage with this attack.
Level 21: 5 + Dexterity modifier damage.

Revision (11/30/2009)
Page 18: Duelist’s Flurry should have the second line of the hit changed to allow you to deal your sneak attack damage instead of gain so that it matches the wording of sneak attack. Change to the second line of the hit to, You may use your sneak attack damage even if you do not have combat advantage against the target with this attack.

First published in Dragon Magazine 381.

For a level 11, dagger-wielding, rogue with the Backstabber feat, a 21 Dex and an 18 Cha, who does not have Combat Advantage:

Sly Flourish: 1W + Dex + Cha + Weapon Enchancement + Weapon Focus + Iron Armbands of Power
avg = 2.5 + 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 18.5
crit = 4 + 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 2 + 10.5 = 30.5

vs.

Duelist's Flurry: Dex + Sneak Attack + Weapon Enhancement + Weapon Focus + Iron Armbands of Power
avg = 5 + 13.5 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 25.5
crit = 5 + 24 + 3 + 2 + 2 + 10.5 = 46.5

Comparing the relative advantages of these two powers, Flourish gives you weapon damage and an extra ability modifier (Cha) while Flurry gives you your Sneak Attack dice even though you don't have CA. That's 7 points higher on average and 16 on a crit! Flurry is the clear winner here right?

Not really. With powers like Duelist's Flurry you lose a lot more than just the [x]W damage. The powers compared in the above example have several bonuses in common they should not. Duelist's Flurry and powers like it, that give only a static damage number, do not have an actual Damage Roll. What does this mean? Well....

Damage Rolls

Roll the damage indicated in the power description. If you’re using a weapon for the attack, the damage is some multiple of your weapon damage dice.

Add the ability modifier specified in the power description. Usually, this is the same ability modifier you used to determine your base attack bonus for the attack.

In addition, any of the following factors might apply to a damage roll:

- Racial or feat bonuses
- An enhancement bonus (usually from a magic weapon or an implement)
- An item bonus
- A power bonus
- Untyped bonuses

Published in Player's Handbook.

If you look at some of the bullet points in the PHB description of a Damage Roll several of the bonuses the two powers above appeared to have in common might not apply to a power that lacks a damage roll. Let's double check them.

Weapon

The weapon keyword identifies a power that is used with a weapon, including an improvised weapon such as an unarmed strike. The range and the damage of a weapon power is usually determined by the weapon you use with it. A [W] in a power’s damage expression stands for your weapon’s damage dice.

If you use a weapon power with a weapon with which you have proficiency, you add the weapon’s proficiency bonus to the attack rolls of that power. Your class and feats determine your weapon proficiencies.

Magic Weapons: If you use a weapon power with a magic weapon, you can add the magic weapon’s enhancement bonus to the power’s attack rolls and damage rolls.

Using an Implement as a Weapon: Most implements cannot be used as weapons. However, a few implements, like staffs, are expressly usable as both implements and weapons. When you wield such an implement as a weapon, you follow the normal rules for using a weapon.

When you use a magic version of the implement as a weapon, you can use the magic implement’s enhancement bonus and critical hit effects. To use its properties and powers, you must be able to wield it as an implement (see “Implement” above). Also, some magic implements have properties and powers that are worded in such a way that they work only with implement attacks.

Published in Player's Handbook 3.

Ok, so cross out the Weapon Enhancement bonus from Flurry (-3). Flurry is still ahead on average damage.

Weapon Focus

Heroic Tier
Benefit: Choose a specific weapon group, such as spears or heavy blades. You gain a +1 feat bonus to damage rolls with your chosen weapon group. At 11th level, this bonus increases to +2. At 21st level, it increases to +3.
Special: You can take this feat more than once. Each time you select this feat, choose another weapon group.

First published in Player's Handbook.

Damn, lost Weapon Focus too (-2). Flurry is still ahead on average damage by 2.

Iron Armbands of Power

These plate armbands enhance the damage you dole out.

Level: 6
Price: 1,800 gp
Item Slot: Arms

Property: Gain a +2 item bonus to melee damage rolls.

First published in Adventurer's Vault.

Actually, most item bonuses to damage are bonuses given to damage rolls. There are some items that grant extra damage without rolling like the Frozen Whetstone that simply deal extra damage on a successful attack.

This just happens to pull things dead even in terms of average damage. Almost like I planned it that way.

Sly Flourish: 1W + Dex + Cha + Weapon Enchancement + Weapon Focus + Iron Armbands of Power
avg = 2.5 + 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 18.5
crit = 4 + 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 2 + 10.5 = 30.5

vs.

Duelist's Flurry: Dex + Sneak Attack
avg = 5 + 13.5 = 18.5
crit = 5 + 24 + 10.5 = 39.5

When taking into account the slide + shift utility aspect and crits (omg) Flurry still looks like the winner to me.

Of course, there are other bonuses out there that only apply to damage rolls and I'm not factoring those in to the equation since they tend to be situational. Just be aware if they state that hey add to damage rolls they won't apply to powers like Duelist's Flurry.

Am I happy about this? Not really. When it comes right down to it I think it makes the Rogue less fun to play. The main thing that makes rogues fun to play in combat encounters is their need to slip around the grid, taking chances, trying to get into position where they can use Sneak Attack. This power just hands it to them. Even in you managed to redesign the power so that its damage did not keep pace so well with the other at-will powers (and it clearly needs this) I would still feel the game was better off without it entirely.

A better power with the duelist flavor (e.g. mono e mono) would be something like this:

Rogue Attack 1Duelist's Flurry

You move your blade quickly, stinging your foe with a series of cuts and slashes. Each slice does little damage, but when combined, they form a deadly threat.

At-Will      Martial, Weapon
Standard Action      Melee weapon

Requirement: You must be wielding a light blade.

Target: One creature

Attack: Dexterity vs. AC

Hit: Dexterity modifier damage, slide the target 1 square, and you shift 1 square. You may apply your Sneak Attack damage to your next successful attack that damages the target until the end of your next turn.
Level 21: 5 + Dexterity modifier damage.

Even more fun would be something like this:

Rogue Attack 1Duelist's Flurry

You move your blade quickly, stinging your foe with a series of cuts and slashes. Each slice does little damage, but when combined, they form a deadly threat.

At-Will      Martial, Weapon
Standard Action      Melee weapon

Requirement: You must be wielding a light blade.

Target: One creature

Attack: Dexterity vs. AC

Hit: Dexterity modifier damage, and guess the target's next action. If your guess is correct you may take an opportunity attack against the target. You may add your Sneak Attack damage to this attack.
Level 21: 5 + Dexterity modifier damage.

Side Note:

There is some debate as to whether Sneak Attack and other striker "extra damage" dice get max'ed out on a critical hit. My take on the RAW is they do.

Critical Hit

Natural 20: If you roll a 20 on the die when making an attack roll, you score a critical hit if your total attack roll is high enough to hit your target’s defense. If your attack roll is too low to score a critical hit, you still hit automatically.

Precision: Some class features and powers allow you to score a critical hit when you roll numbers other than 20 (only a natural 20 is an automatic hit).

Maximum Damage: Rather than roll damage, determine the maximum damage you can roll with your attack. This is your critical damage. (Attacks that don’t deal damage still don’t deal damage on a critical hit.)

Extra Damage: Magic weapons and implements, as well as high crit weapons, can increase the damage you deal when you score a critical hit. If this extra damage is a die roll, it’s not automatically maximum damage; you add the result of the roll.

Published in Player's Handbook.

Most of the discussion centers around the last paragraph. Obviously damage expressions stated in powers are maximized but what about "extra damage"? Some argue that Sneak Attack damage is extra damage (and it is) so it's included with the other extra damage examples in the last paragraph. Others argue the last paragraph ONLY includes the examples given and is only there to make sure people know the extra damage dice given as part of the critical hit must still be rolled.

Of course, anyone who played 3/3.5 might also have the lingering feeling that Sneak Attack damage is not multiplied in a critical hit. I recommend just throwing that feeling out. it's 10d6 vs 5d6 in a system where monsters have a lot more hp on average than the previous edition of the game. I doubt it's a concern anymore.

It would also help if Damage Roll vs. extra damage that gets rolled was a little better defined.

In the end I just don't think letting strikers do more damage on a critical hit is a bad thing or overpowered in any way. Plus, I actually like the idea of being a Daggermaster and taking the gamble of waiting for a critical hit to unload my Sneak Attack damage, which you can do since you don't have to decide when to apply your SA damage until after the rest of your damage has been rolled.

Bardic Crunch

Also titled: How Many Heals do Bards Get?

Good question. After looking at one of the Bard's more under appreciated class features, Multiclass Versatility, I think a better question is, how many feats do Bards get?

The answer? After poking around in the Character Builder I was able to create a level 12 Bard with the following:

• Majestic Word (Bard class feature - it's their 2/encounter heal)
• Theft of Life (Bard encounter power)
• Healing Infusion (Artificer multiclass feature - 1/day)
• Healing Spirit (Shaman multiclass power - 1/day)
• Healing Word (Cleric multiclass feature - 1/day)
• Healing Strike (Cleric encounter power)
• Insipring Word (Warlord multiclass feature - 1/day)
• Rune of Mending (Runepriest multiclass feature - 1/day)

Even with 6 multiclass feats and a novice power feat I was still able to give this build the Combat Virtuoso and Healer's Implement feats giving it a decent chance to hit with other class powers and a small boost to all heals. Stack her up with some River of Life Gloves and a proper Holy Symbol and she's starting to look like a real healer. I'm sure if I spent a few more hours tweaking it I could squeeze a few more points of healing in there but I've seen enough.

Here is a link to the build on iPlay4E.

In the end I still think the Cleric makes a more efficient healer, with bigger nuke heals and better access to multi-target healing. The Bard has the potential for a greater number of healing spells per day through multi-class feats but sacrifices specialization and a great deal of optimization due to the number of feats spent on multiclassing. A side benefit to all those multicass feats is a lot of cool extra class features and options. The shaman abilities alone and just really neat. These side benefits give this bard build some suprising utility at the table, which wouldn't you know it, feels quite bardic!

Now if only you could construct a plausible background for such a character....

Taking a Rest from Crunch

Short Rest

Duration: A short rest is about 5 minutes long.

No Limit per Day: You can take as many short rests per day as you want.

No Strenuous Activity: You have to rest during a short rest. You can stand guard, sit in place, ride on a wagon or other vehicle, or do other tasks that don’t require much exertion.

Renew Powers: After a short rest, you renew your encounter powers, so they are available for your next encounter.

Spend Healing Surges: After a short rest, you can spend as many healing surges as you want. If you run out of healing surges, you must take an extended rest to regain them.

Using Powers while You Rest: If you use an encounter power (such as a healing power) during a short rest, you need another short rest to renew it so that you can use it again.

Interruptions: If your short rest is interrupted, you need to rest another 5 minutes to get the benefits of a short rest.

Published in Player's Handbook.

I'm so happy they addressed this, and in a core rulebook no less. I'm not so happy with the way they addressed it. Seems clunky. Also, reduces the competitive value of the Bard's short rest ability. Oh well. Let's see how it plays.

Crunchbane

Something has been niggling at the back of my brain over the past week. It's Devilbane. Actually there are a couple feats just like it but they have the same basic concept. Attacks that normally target undead now target [x] as well. Very cool.

Devilbane

Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Any divine class
Benefit: When you use a divine power that normally targets undead, you can also target creatures of the immortal origin.

First published in Divine Power.

Seems simple right? Kinda.

The problem is there are quite a few powers that appear to "target" undead, that actually don't. For instance: Solar Wrath or as we like to call it post-nerfing, Sunny Hug.

Radiant Servant Attack 11Solar Wrath

Radiant light explodes from you like a solar flare, evaporating shadows and dealing illuminating damage to everything around you.

Encounter       Divine, Implement, Radiant
Standard Action      Close burst 3

Target: Each enemy in burst

Attack: Wisdom vs. Will

Hit: 2d6 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage. If the target is either an undead creature or a demon, it is also stunned until the end of your next turn.

Update (4/8/2010)
In the Range entry, replace “burst 8” with “burst 3.” In the Hit entry, replace “3d8” with “2d6.”
Addition (6/10/2008)
Add the “Implement” keyword.

First published in Player's Handbook.

Reading this power over, I might conclude pretty easily that my cool new Devilbane feat allows me to apply the Hit effect to Immortals as well as undead and demons. Sadly, no. The power already targets every enemy regardless of creature type in the burst, so the [x]bane feats do not apply.

In an uncharacteristic act of trust toward the race of nubstains known as customer "service", I took a(nother) moment of my time and posted a question to the support page on WoTC's official site.

Q: Does the Devilbane feat work with powers like Solar Wrath? Solar Wrath and other similar powers do not specifically call out undead in their "Target" line but do have effects specifically for undead. Do feats like Devilbane and Demonbane work with these effects?

A: Nope, the power will specifically have to state that it's targetting undead creatures. Then it can target creatures of the other origins like devilbane.

BTW: I received this answer in less than 12 hours. Yay for WoTC customer support. I may someday soon learn to love again...

If you do a search in the Compendium for the keyword "undead" you will find 21 matches in the powers category. Of those, six actually target undead. Of those, one is a cleric power. Still it's a pretty kick-ass boost to the versatility of turn undead. Well worth the feat IMO.